My names is Tyrell. For the sake of time, lets just say, that it may be helpful if you are going to read my blogs to know a bit of who I, just so you know I am not a wacko from the mountains (know what I mean).
I was saved by God’s grace at age 7 (long story, but really cool). Grew up in a free-baptist church (Wesleyan-Arminian). At age 11-13 I got involved in an extreme Charismatic group, went to their church spoke in… ‘tongues’(thats what they called it, I actually just babbled in ecstatic speech). I was part of a team that went evangelizing (I was younger then everyone by like 15 years), during this time I learned about sharing the gospel with people stuck in Islam, Wicca, satanism and the New Age (with a bit of Hinduism and Buddhism). A few years later I went to England for a while (when I was 15) and did open air preaching at ‘Speakers Corner’ where I experienced things like, being assaulted by haters of the gospel, but the Lord preserved me (by using the cops)
My life then calmed down a bit. I Joined my brothers church, a growing Baptist Church. Now while I was young I was pretty sick, so I took much time to read theological books (from my brother who was the pastor of the church I later attended, with some philosophy as well) as well as trashy ‘Christian’ books.
Anyway, after school it was either German army or theology, and since my life was headed that way, I went army…kidding, I went and got a honors degree in Theology from the Baptist Theological College of Southern Africa. During this time I became convinced of Cessationism (I prefer to call it ‘Completism’), and the Doctrines of grace, which is funny…. see I was exposed to it when writing about Wesley and Whitefield, I got so annoyed with the Doctrines of Grace that I started writing an article against it, however, alas, in time I realized that they were Scriptural and that i need to humble myself before God. This was a ground-breaking moment in my Christian growth.
I worked as a Youth pastor at the Baptist Church my brother was leading, during that time he went to be with the Lord and I took over more of the preaching and God’s sovereignty stopped being theology and became real life.
I now work as an Associate Pastor of a ‘reformed’ Baptist Church in Pretoria (Constanita Park Baptist), it has been such a blessing being there under godly elders and Martin Holdt the Senior pastor, this is definatly a gift from God. In October of 2008 I began doing a Master’s degree in ‘Practical Theology’.
Well, there you have it, if I remember anything else I shall update this. Hope you enjoy what I write, or hate it, or think its okay
Posted by Bernd on June 6, 2008 at 9:58 am
Hi Tyrrell
Thankyou for your email, much appreciated. We will chat about that some time. I saw your blog address at the end of your email so I thought I would have a peek.
My only comment on your article is that I believe that “cessationism” is an inconsistent hermeneutic. Firstly, an abuse of tongues, healing etc does not mean that tongues or healing does not exist. You should perhaps look at doing some wider research before you reach a final conclusion. My experience is that there are responsible charismatic churches and christians (and some irresponsible evangelicals – KJV only etc!). Because a bakery may sell burned breadrolls does not mean that all breadrolls are inedible. In the same way the hyper Calvinistic doctrine of double presdestination and all the speculation that can come with that (supra lapsarianism etc) does not mean that election is now a false doctrine or does not exist.
Secondly, I cannot see anything in the biblical text indicating that these gifts would cease in this age. (Certainly not when I look at the book of Acts or Paul’s ministry). There may have been periods where certain supernatural gifts were more prevalent and then died out somewhat and then were revived again, but if you are to apply a consistent hermeneutic it would be stretching things from 1 Cor 12, 13 and 14 that tongues would cease in the “apostolic age”, rather than in the context which indicates the age to come, when hope and faith will also cease. I would say that straining cessationism out of 1 Cor 12, 13 and 14 is on the same level as the claim that all must speak in tongues from reading those chapters!
Thirdly, some of the reformed christians, like the Puritans were not cessationists (Richard Baxter for instance who believed in prophecy). In addition some exceptional theologians and preachers like Wayne Grudem, DA Carson, John Piper and Martyn Lloyd Jones would also disagree with you in a pretty big way.
My feeling is that excluding the more supernatural gifts limits ones own effectiveness in ministry. At the end of the day each person must be convinced in their own mind. I would urge you to read more widely and take more time before you reach a final conclusion.
Blessings on the way
Bernard
Posted by tyrellh on June 6, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Thanks Bernt, it would be great to chat sometime, I am really excited that you are now at Mondeor, you are often in my prayers, and it is always a joy to see you when I get the chances. If I may respond to what you said regarding cessationism, and please take this in the tone of friendly Christian discourse as iron sharpens iron
Cessationism is not a hermeneutic, what you would be saying is that you disagree with the historical-grammatical hermeneutic. Cessationism is the doctrine systematically affirmed by a number of Scriptures taking into account the historical grammatical nature of text, as well as the nature of progressive revelation. I don’t think on should say the supernatural gifts continue based upon ones own alleged experience of them either, so a argument would not be because I or other people supposedly experience them. In my own personal journey I went from an extremist in tongues to a more along the line calm ‘biblical’ tongues guy, mostly under the influence of men like Jack Deere, as in his book ‘Surprised by the Holy Spirit’
Talking about hermeneutics one should obviously interpret Didactic literature (IE the Epistles) in a different way from narrative (ie Acts), so to read Acts and then gather that it is normal for the Church would be a bad hermeneutic. Furthermore, where in Acts does anyone but an Apostle or someone like Stephen (one instance) who was a close associate preform and miracle, healing or wonder (Acts 2:43, Acts 4:30-33, Acts 5:12, Acts 6:8, Acts 7:36, Acts 14:3-4, Acts 15:12, Romans 15:19). Then when one reads the rest of the New Testament, it always says that the signs followed the apostles, or was to attest to the word of the apostles (Acts 3:6 Acts 5:12-16 Acts 8:6-7 Acts 28:8, 2 Cor 12:12). I am not the biggest advocate of the when the perfect has come passage, however if you admit that it seems to have died for a time, then you would have a problem with the word ‘cease’ in reference to tongues, since the Greek word and its passing implies to suddenly stop and not reoccur.
To that cessationism is one the same level as the teaching that all must speak in tongues is I think a bit invalid since cessationism is built on a number of passages, not on a concept.
Some reformed Christians do not hold to cessationism (note: Baxter was not actually reformed), however, has Piper ever allowed prophecy or tongues as I assume you would accept it? Has he ever witnessed genuine tongues? Piper said regarding this, “I confess that as far as I can remember there has been no question in all my preaching ministry that has caused me more heart-wrenching uncertainty. ” He added in another sermon regarding the gifts continuance, “My answer is yes, but not in the same measure that the apostles experienced this miraculous power” However the Scripture to talk about a shift of power level is no where. What about, Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr, Origen, Chysostom, Augustine, Edwards, Calvin, Luther, Wesminster Confession, Spurgeon, MacArthur, Sproul, Boice?
I have no problem with working together with those who have a sensible and and ‘biblical’ view of the gifts, even John Piper, praise the Lord for him, I would link arms and fight for the gospel with that man, and anyone else who like myself may merely be striving his best to be God honoring. I have read numerous articles defending the gifts, I like to think I read widely, perhaps you could recommend others, or read some cessationist (or almost any church document save a few from before 1900) books.
Where I must disagree and sometimes cause contention is when young Christians during an alter call are forced to try and speak in tongues, when prophecies are given about the expansion of a persons ministry and God’s coming blessing a few months before their death, where people are encourage to march and tear down strongholds in an area instead of fast/pray/evangelize, where the explicit ministry of the church, and the lives of those brought with Christ’s blood are in danger of quickly falling into sentimentalism and abuse. I am sure you would agree with that. As John Piper said on this very issue, ” Oh, Lord, forbid that we should lose our Biblical bearings; forbid that we become trendy or faddish and begin to substitute the sand of experience for the rock of revealed truth. Show us the fullness of the power of the gospel, Lord, and keep us from preoccupation with secondary things, no matter how spectacular”
Posted by Bernd on June 7, 2008 at 8:26 am
Hi Tyrell
okay, regarding your last comment which now dissappeared.?
When I speak of “a hermeneutic”, I mean more the application of the Historial-Grammatical hermeneutical approach. Most evangelicals would now follow that approach to interpretation.
I believe that cessationism is an inconsistent exegesis or an inconsistent application of the historical grammatical interpretation of the text.
Also, regarding gifts resurging and then sort of being less prevalent. There were groups and individuals throughout church history who experienced the supernatural gifts.
Then lastly regarding Richard Baxter. he certainly would broadly fall under the category of “Puritan.”
As for pressure to speak in tongues. I whole heartedly agree with you that it is utter nonsense to practice that sort of thing. I am not trying to defend any of those abuses as I have myself been on the receiving end.
Blessings
Bernd
Posted by Kirsten on August 1, 2008 at 10:43 am
Hey SuPeR T
I just wanted to say:
KIRSTEN WAS HERE!
Posted by Caleb on May 1, 2009 at 6:13 am
Hey hey! Finally found your blog
Posted by Renate on June 12, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Hey Tyrell! Thanks for visiting my blog and commenting.
I like your blog’s new look, by the way. Looks cool!
Renate